DoubleBear Productions is less than $20,000 away from unleashing the zombie apocalypse. Their turn-based survival RPG
Dead State
is well on-track to meet its Kickstarter funding goal, with over
$130,000 of $150,000 already raised and only half of the time limit for
fund-raising elapsed. We had a chat with lead designer and Black
Isle/Troika/Obsidian veteran Brian Mitsoda about crowd-funding the end
of the world, why he thinks that explaining the undead’s origin is lame,
and how Dead State isn’t “just another zombie game.”
PC Gamer: Your Kickstarter campaign has been very successful. How does the reality compare to what you expected at the start?
Brian Mitsoda: We’re kind of following the normal
Kickstarter trend right now. We started really big and that was really
very exciting. It’s been kind of dropping off in the middle, which it
generally does. The expectations are that we’re pretty sure we’re going
to get funded. Our biggest goal right now is to hit the 150 mark which,
if you’ve watched any of the other Kickstarters, a lot of times that’s
when a bunch of other people will be like, “Oh, it’s funded. Let’s go
fund that now.” And then, of course, you’ve got a huge push at the end
generally.
Really, the hardest part for us has been that there’s been a bit of
Kickstarter fatigue in the press lately. For a lot of press, they’re
like, “Oh, yeah, Kickstarter. That was really big… back in April.”
The other thing that’s kind of worked against us is that we have
zombies in our game. And I don’t know if you’re aware, but there are a
lot of games that use zombies. And so we’ve kind of tried to deal with
this problem of, “Oh, look, another zombie game!” And one of the things
we’ve tried to get across to people and the press is that the zombies
really are not the major focus of the game. It’s really just an excuse
to have an interesting combat mechanic and explain why the whole world
has fallen apart: “Well, the zombies have kind of pushed it in that
direction, but let’s focus on the humans.”
PCG: What would you say is the most unexpected or surprising part of this process so far?
BM: When we were getting things together for the
Kickstarter build, it was a pretty insane push and we were working
pretty late hours because we wanted to show as much as possible. Getting
together videos and stuff like that. And we thought, “Oh, it’ll all be
over soon! And we’ll get the Kickstarter out!” But it’s been pretty long
hours ever since the Kickstarter launched as well, trying to get press
awareness, working on the game as well, and answering e-mails from
people, and answering stuff on our forums… You just get a ton of contact
from all kinds of people.
Many, many e-mails from composers–and by the way, we do have a
composer, everybody. And it’s pretty much become a full-time thing where
my wife and I have been doing nonstop e-mails with press and other
people. It’s been a lot of work.
PCG: How does this model compare to working on a game for a major publisher?
BM: Well, for a major publisher, you’re going to
have times when you’re really busy, but you’re pretty much dedicated to
your section of the game. Unless you’re the project lead, and then
you’re probably in meetings all day. But for indie games, we have a very
small team. So, many times, for things not to fall through the cracks,
somebody has to take responsibility for them. And a lot of times that
person is me.
When you go indie, be prepared to wear a lot of hats. You’re going to
be the project lead, you’re going to be the lead designer, you’re going
to be the writer, you’re going to be the scripter on this level, you’re
going be the producer, you’re going to be the press person, you’re
going to be the community manager… you’re going to be doing a lot of
that. So be very good at budgeting your time.
If you want a bison burger after the end of the world, you'll have to contend with creepy looters in surgical masks.
PCG: How many people do you have working full-time on the game right now?
BM: Right now, it’s just me, my lead artist Oscar,
lead programmer Nick, and then our lead animator. Those are the only
people working full-time. We have a lot of contributors and other team
memebers that are working on it pretty much every day, part-time. And
we’re hoping to get most of those guys up to full-time after we’ve got
the Kickstarter done.
PCG: You’ve talked about Dead State being a very open-ended
game. Is there an endgame? Or do you just keep playing forever or until
you die?
BM: We definitely didn’t want to do something where
you just continually play, because we have a lot of story/narrative
progression. And a very open narrative, not like a heavy-handed, linear
narrative. A lot of stuff opens up as you play. We do have multiple
endings. There are a lot of different ways that you can end the game,
and some of those are failure states. We do have ways that you can end
the game prematurely just because you played so poorly. Which I find
refreshing, because you don’t see that anymore. But we’re not going to
punish the player too much. I really don’t want to get people into the,
“Oh, hey, you messed up once: You’re dead!” kind of situation.
Depending on who you meet, depending on your relationship with other
groups, depending on where you go and at what time–we open up a lot of
possibilities as the game goes on. There will definitely be ways to get a
little bit more of a heroic ending or a selfish ending. There are going
to be a lot of options. It really depends on how you play. I know there
are always going to be people who are like, “Well, I killed off all of
the allies at the shelter. I win!” But really, our focus has been having
every player have their own narrative of what they did at their
shelter. What is their story?
PCG: Can all of your allies die? What happens if, say, all of your co-leaders are dead and it’s just you?
BM: Assuming you didn’t piss people off enough to
get ejected from the shelter yourself, you can still play it. I assume
it would be a very different experience. I haven’t personally tried that
path. I’m sure I’m going to assign somebody to do that. But what we
want to emphasize in the game is, you kind of need other people to get
by. I’m guessing that at a certain point, it’s going to be a little bit
too difficult to just be on your own. Although that sounds like an “Iron
Man” mode waiting for someone to make it themselves, and go, “I got
through by myself! I’m the best!” The first person that does that in the
game, I want to hear how they did it.
PCG: How long do you intend a typical game of Dead State to last, assuming it doesn’t end early with everyone dying horribly.
BM: Right now our estimate is about 50+ hours, at
least. And there are so many optional things you can do in the game that
can be padded out. It really depends on how many people you have [at
your shelter], what your interactions are, how often you like to get
into combat. We don’t encourage people to get into combat for
experience, so some people are probably going to try to be a little more
quiet. There are definitely ways to work things out in dialogue. I’d
wager on your first playthrough it’s going to be a little bit longer.
PCG: Are the NPC co-leaders the same every time you play?
BM: Right now, yeah. There are dozens of allies, but
as far as co-leaders go, they are all the same for every playthrough
assuming you get them. But there are different ways that you can
approach them. Basically, with any ally, the way that you interact with
them can change their personality a lot. That also depends on your
skills and who else you have in the shelter.
I don’t think everyone’s going to get all the allies every time.
You’re not going to find them all your first time through. As far as the
co-leaders go, the reason they’re always the same is because the crisis
events they participate in are an awful lot of dialogue and script
checks. And if we had it so that you could pick anybody [as a
co-leader], we would have to write dozens of people into each crisis
event, which would be a phenomenal amount of work. But we do plan on
doing post-release for Dead State, and one of the things we’d like to do
is add more characters and more options.
PCG: You mentioned post-release content. What are your plans for that?
BM: We definitely want to add options for things
that the community really wants. For example, modifiers for new games.
So, antibiotics is one of those things we might make a modifier for. So
if you don’t want to play the hardcore mode, you just want to turn off
antibiotics in the normal mode. Or things like how much food you need
per day.
One thing we’ve been talking about is, so many people have wanted
full control of their party. And that’s something we won’t be doing for
the normal game. But if there’s enough demand for that post-release, we
might do something like, “This isn’t really how the game is supposed to
be played, but if you really want this, we’ve added this modifier.”
We’re looking at new allies, new content. And of course we’d like to
work on some full-fledged expansions as well.
PCG: How do you plan to fund and price post-release content?
BM: For any of the post-release stuff, we won’t be
doing Kickstarter. We don’t really want to nickel and dime people with
DLC. We’re not big fans of that, and we don’t really like having
everybody play different games with different items that are probably
breaking the game in horrible ways. So what we’d like to do is put out
content that is for everybody that has the core game [free.] And if we
do have an expansion that’s stand-alone, that would cost $5-10. Which
would be a significant new game with 20 or 30 hours or something. Rather
than something where you paid five bucks for two more hours of content.
Dead State focuses on the humans more than the zombies. But a lot of the humans seem to want to kill you as well.
PCG: In terms of story, are you going with a more unknowable
apocalypse? Or will it be possible through gameplay to discover what
happened, where all the zombies came from, etc.?
BM: I’m a big believer in the unknowable. Because
it’s always hokey, right? Whenever they try to explain where the zombies
came from, or where vampires came from, or whatever. It always ends up
being something really ludicrous. And how many people would even know
[in the game world] about what’s really going on? It’s one of those
things where we throw out a lot of theories. Everybody seems to have
their own theory, and everybody has kind of heard something. But
communication has broken down, and now it’s like a game of telephone
where everybody has heard
something, but you never really know.
PCG: Do you plan to make the game moddable?
BM: Dedicated modding tools tend to be something
that you almost need a separate team to develop. It’s not even our own
engine, we’re licensing it, so I’m not even sure what our ability to put
out mod tools are. We know there are a lot of modders that will come up
with something anyhow. And we’ll keep an eye on that. And if people
have come up with something better than we could have done ourselves,
we’ll probably just ask if we can use that. But as far as modding out of
the box, that’s kind of out of our scope right now. It’s also something
that we could do post-release, but we’ll have to see just how many
people it’s going to take.
Thanks to Brian for taking the time to talk to us! You still have a couple weeks to fund Dead State if you haven’t already.